Senator Donald Oliver is seen at Wroxton College in Britain.
Last week, the Conservative government announced a review of employment-equity policies in response to a woman who complained that she had applied for a job only to be told it was reserved for aboriginal and visible-minority applicants. The move was criticized by Opposition and labour groups.
Conservative Senator Donald Oliver has worked tirelessly for the cause of employment equity. He says progress has been made, but there's still a long way to go, particularly for visible minorities. Of the four groups targeted by employment-equity legislation, visible minorities are the only group whose representation in the federal public service falls below its level of availability in the work force.
Some might suggest we've done enough at this point to help visible minorities and the other targeted groups - women, aboriginal people and people with disabilities - achieve equity in the work place. Have we?
We have definitely not done enough. There's an awful lot more to be done for all four targeted groups, particularly visible minorities. Of the four groups, visible minorities are at the bottom of the heap.
Why do you think that is?
I think it's because of racism. I think it's because of discrimination. I think it's because of barriers that are ethnic based.
Citizenship and Immigration minister Jason Kenney said no one should be barred from applying for a job based on their race or ethnicity. Do you agree with that?
Yes, of course I do. That's essential to what I believe.
He was referring to a job that was set aside for an aboriginal or visible minority person, something that happens only very rarely (less than 2 per cent of federal job postings) to help departments meet equity targets. Is that practice necessary?
It's very necessary. More than 30 years ago, the federal government said there's a major problem in Canada: there are four groups that are treated unequally: women, aboriginal people, the disabled and visible minorities. In order for them to catch up, because they are not fairly represented in the public service of Canada, we have to take "special measures" to ensure their equality. They then passed statutes such as the Employment Equity Act and others. I strongly believe that special measures still have to be taken for those four target groups.
Why do you think this matter was raised by Jason Kenney this week?
From what I read, someone applied for a job in his department, they were white, and they said they couldn't get the job because it had been set aside for aboriginals or visible minorities. I think that, as a minister should do, he said: "This can't be right. We can't discriminate against any group just to find equality for another." I agree with that. I always say I am not asking for anything special for visible minorities, aboriginals or the disabled. But I want hiring to be based on merit. If there are two people who are both qualified for the same job, they both have all the language and other requirements and otherwise seem equal, I'm asking that the visible minority be given an opportunity. That's not discrimination.
A lot of people from visible minorities apply for jobs but are eliminated at the first stages of the competition. Do you have any idea why that's the case?
I was responsible for having done the largest study in the history of Canada on barriers to the advancement of visible minorities in both the public and the private sector. If you have an Indian- or Japanese-sounding name and you apply for a job, very often you won't get a second call or invitation for an interview based upon your name alone. The report also outlined other kinds of barriers that cut visible minorities out at a very early stage. It was systemic.
It could also be seen as a coded attack on what might be perceived as preferential treatment for the four targeted groups. In this case, it was a white woman who was barred from applying for a job.
That's completely wrong and inaccurate. One of the big problems is that if you look at the senior ranks of the public service, you will find that three of the targeted groups are grossly under-represented. So there's a systemic problem. It can't be said that there's no Indian who's competent to be a deputy minister. Today [nearly]20 per cent of Canadian society are visible minorities, so why aren't they represented in the senior ranks of the public service?
How far have we come and what do you hope comes out of this review of employment equity?
I don't know what kind of study Stockwell Day is going to do, but I frankly welcome it. We have made some inroads on the targeted groups, but at the lower levels. In the senior-executive category we have a long, long way to go. I hope before I die I'll be able to look at the ranks of the 40 senior deputy ministers and see three or four that are distinguished visible minorities.
This interview has been condensed and edited.