It’s been two centuries since Colombia and Venezuela, once united in one state, went their separate ways. Today, they are uneasy neighbours, at another historic turning point.
For 27 years, under leaders Hugo Chávez and then Nicolás Maduro, oil-rich Venezuela fell into poverty, autocracy and international pariah status. About eight million Venezuelans no longer live within the country. Of those, three million are in Colombia, where they learned last week that Mr. Maduro was captured by U.S. forces in a raid on Caracas.
U.S. President Donald Trump then threatened Colombia’s left-wing leader, Gustavo Petro, saying he would take military action over issues of drug trafficking.
The Globe and Mail spoke to citizens – both Colombian and Venezuelan – on the streets of Bogotá, Colombia’s capital. We asked three questions:
🟡How do you feel about the U.S. operation that removed Mr. Maduro from Venezuela?
🔵How seriously do you take Mr. Trump’s threats against Mr. Petro?
🔴How do you see life changing for you after this military action next door?
🟡 Well, to me it’s quite a bittersweet piece of news. Sweet because it’s a regime that helped destroy the country, that has been in power for more than 20 years, that does not recognize elections. And it is concerning as well because of what is practically an invasion, one could say, by the United States over South America. That part I strongly disagree with, and it worries me a lot.
🔵At first, I honestly thought those threats [against Petro] were not serious, but seeing the level of interference he had in Venezuela, it is something to take seriously. I do think there is a real possibility that he could do it.
🔴I live on the border, very close to it. I am always a direct, firsthand witness to everything that happens there, and this militarization makes me uncomfortable and causes me insecurity in my own home.
🟡Honestly, it was a complete surprise, totally unexpected. We don’t know what’s going to happen, but there is a strong sense of indignation and deep concern. I’m worried that they could come and do the same thing in our country.
🔵We have a different government here, we have a left-wing president who is very intelligent and wise in his own way, but there is uncertainty. There is fear.
🔴Many of us depend on tourism. When a situation like this arises, people feel afraid to come here. So I believe tourism will decrease somewhat, and of course that affects all of us.
🟡If God allowed things to happen, it was for a reason. God, the universe, everything conspired for this to take place. And if this is going to be for the good of Venezuela and the Venezuelan people, then welcome it. It’s very sad to see so many people from Venezuela who had their property there, their lives there, and were forced to leave everything behind to come here simply to try to find a better future. I hope everything turns out to be for their benefit.
🔵I believe [Trump] could do the same here. There’s no need to be extreme or panic, but we also shouldn’t be too passive – because if he was able to do it there, why wouldn’t he be able to do it here?
🔴If we look closely, there are many Venezuelans in Colombia who have displaced Colombian workers. It’s a complicated situation. This could open space for many Venezuelans to return home, rebuild their lives, recover their belongings, and at the same time create more opportunities here for Colombians to access jobs that many of them need.
🟡I simply feel happy. I consider Maduro to be a usurper, not a legitimate president, and I agree with what Trump did. I don’t like him, but I do agree with this action.
🔵I don’t believe the same actions could be taken against President Petro. However, I do believe they could be taken against criminal groups such as the FARC dissidents or the Clan del Golfo – there, I do think Trump should act.
🔴I wouldn’t know how to measure the consequences precisely, but in the long term, I believe that what we want as citizens is peace, to be able to live and work with tranquillity. This military action could have a positive effect in the long run, because it’s no secret that Colombia has lived through 60 years of internal conflict. We would like to be able to live in peace here in Colombia as well.
🟡I feel this is a new form of colonialism driven by the extraction of resources, it’s obvious. Even though it’s clear that Maduro was a dictator, I don’t believe this was done with the Venezuelan people in mind. So, I find it very troubling. At the same time, I also see it from an economic perspective: it could activate the economy of an oil producing country like Venezuela, and that might help many Venezuelans return and regain faith in their country. However, this is not the way to do it.
🔵I find the threats very serious because they could become real. Colombia has many resources, especially in terms of water. And what can we expect from someone who believes that global warming doesn’t exist? Personally, these threats put us in a deep state of anxiety.
🔴I work in tourism, and if that uncertainty exists, people won’t want to invest in or visit a country that could potentially be heading toward war. For Venezuelans living in Colombia, this could be a glimmer of hope that things might improve or it could all completely collapse, which I honestly think is one of the most likely scenarios. And that’s not okay.
🟡I wouldn’t say that I agree with the intervention, because many international laws were violated in the process. It’s not right; the principle was that countries should not intervene in the internal problems of others. So yes, [the U.S.] did whatever they wanted, for reasons that we all know. Anyone can have an idea of what the United States wants from Venezuela, especially knowing that the U.S. does not have large oil reserves.
🔵I take [the threats] very seriously, because they’re not just words any more; [the United States] has already shown an example of what they can do. If you follow the news, you realize how easy it was for the United States to intervene in Venezuela, given its military power.
🔴I think it will have a big impact. First, because it’s a neighbouring country, and second, because Colombia is hosting people from the country that was attacked and will likely continue to host more people who are afraid – just as some [Venezuelans] will leave [Colombia] because they are not afraid or are seeing this event as something entirely positive.
And that’s understandable, because from a Venezuelan perspective, removing a 16-year problem is a relief, even if it was Donald Trump who did it. For Venezuelans, it feels like a moment to breathe.
🟡It was very gratifying, because every thief eventually gets what’s coming to them. At the same time, lives were also lost. But while Maduro was in power, we also lost many loved ones, while he refused to step down. Everyone is punished for their actions, and he must pay for everything he did.
I have been out of my country for 10 years due to the crisis. The person who lived it is the one who feels it, and the one who can tell it truthfully.
God may take time, but He never forgets – and we always had faith that this government would fall.
🔵I don’t believe, and I don’t hope, that what happened in Venezuela will happen here in Colombia. But if Colombia has the opportunity to change its president, it should do so, in order not to drag itself into consequences like we did.
🔴I don’t think it will affect Colombia at all.
Colombia opened its doors to Venezuela because God allowed it, and God will also bless Colombia for that. It was a country that did not deny Venezuelans food or health care.
🟡Honestly, I feel good about it. As a Venezuelan, I spent almost 16 or 17 years going through hardship. And at this point, it doesn’t really matter who takes power there, as long as we can have a better quality of life. This is one of the greatest moments of happiness I’ve had, because we all wanted that, the removal of that regime.
🔵Regarding the threats, I don’t think it’s necessary for the United States to intervene here, because Colombians can decide who governs them. Venezuela was different, because it was a regime.
🔴I don’t think it will affect anything here. People here can decide whether they want Petro or not. In Venezuela it was different because we didn’t have a choice. Here, it doesn’t affect anything.
🟡Well, that was the only and most effective way for our Venezuelan brothers, although it is not so good from the perspective of the country or sovereignty, but it was the only way to remove this dictator.
🔵Looking at what happened in Venezuela and previously in Panama, I think that as a superpower [Trump] is very strong and [the threat] could potentially be executed.
🔴It’s complicated. I work in tourism, and it’s difficult that our neighbouring country is going through this. The tension at the border is also hard and negative for us. I speak from the tourism perspective; people hesitate to visit, and it affects peace in our country.
🟡I don’t consider this an exit at all. I see it as an act of kidnapping. It’s a violation of international law, something we’ve already become accustomed to seeing the Americans ignore.
Who knows what could happen? Right now, we’re watching to see how capable or how ignorant the Americans are when it comes to maintaining peace.
🔵I think Trump is mainly looking for a media spectacle. I don’t take his threats seriously. I would be more concerned about Mexico, because an operation there would be less costly. But a naval operation from the Caribbean toward Colombia, that’s far-fetched.
What worries me more is that this action could soon have brutal consequences for fuel prices, because what they are really backing there is oil. That’s why they went in, and there could be a problem, because they set the international price of oil, they control it.
🔴We already experienced those effects years ago with what Venezuela sent our way during its crisis. However, we have to understand that the Venezuelan crisis happened because certain families were stealing all of Venezuela’s natural wealth. Maybe [now] there will be some additional migration from people who are anticipating violence, but more likely violence within Venezuela itself rather than from the Americans. And now Petro is ordering the militarization of the border areas. I don’t know exactly what kind of people they’re trying to filter, but he’s trying to control what used to be open.
🟡I felt concerned when I saw the news in the early hours of the morning while it was unfolding. It frightened me because it felt so close. We’re somewhat used to seeing videos from Ukraine, from Russia, older footage from Afghanistan and places like that. But hearing the concern in your own language, coming from a resident of a neighbouring country, really does create anxiety.
🔵It’s a back-and-forth between President Petro and Trump. I don’t think it’s serious that he’s going to come and take all our resources or remove Petro from power. But at the same time, I think it’s right to take a firm stance against allowing that kind of threat, because if you give it room, he will keep taking on powers that, in my opinion, he shouldn’t have.
🔴It depends on how things develop. If nothing major happens, I don’t think there will be serious problems at the borders. If it’s handled in an organized way, there might not even be a conflict. Still, I think there’s more uncertainty than a clear sense of what will actually happen in the future.
These interviews have been edited and condensed.
What questions do you have about the news in Venezuela?
On Jan. 3, United States forces captured Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro and his wife in an early morning raid that included attacks on the capital city of Caracas. Washington says key figures in the old autocratic regime will "run" Venezuela on its behalf, and has threatened other countries if they challenge its hegemony over the Western Hemisphere. Do you have questions about the situation in Venezuela and its impact on Canada? Submit your questions in the box below.
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Attacking Venezuela fits into a larger U.S. plan to dominate the world, militarily and economically, that they made public last year. Vincent Rigby, a former Canadian national security adviser, spoke with The Decibel about this Monroe Doctrine 2.0. Subscribe for more episodes.
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